We have no clue how consciousness emerges from 3 pounds of wet goo. Cognitive scientist Don Hoffman takes us deep into his research suggesting we're attacking the problem backwards. The implications may challenge all you know about our place in reality. Take the Red Pill and see how deep the rabbit hole goes... In this extended interview we dive into the Interface Theory of Perception (how evolution hides the truth about reality in favor of a dumbed down "user interface" that only shows us "fitness payoffs" that help us survive), the "Hard Problem of Consciousness" and how we simply have no idea how consciousness could emerge from physical matter, the non-dual theory of Conscious Realism (how reality is really a social network of "conscious agents" and our perceptions are simply the interface by which we exchange experience with other agents), the math behind conscious agent theory, implications for artificial intelligence (AI), psychedelics, spirituality, and much, much more.